Do you believe?/Spiritual threads merged

[Twinkling Star]

beautifully said cc

[Guy Davies]

Hi, Twinking Star,

You say that spiritualists believe in the teaching of Jesus. He often quoted approvingly from the Book of Deuteronomy in the Bible. What do you make of these words?

 "There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a wizard or a necromancer, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD". (Deut 18:10-12)

The Bible warns us against trying to contact the dead. Jesus has conquered sin and death by his crucifixion and resurrection. Those who believe in Jesus are promised everlasting life and the hope of resurrection from the dead. The Bible, God's Word gives us all the guidance we need for life and death.

GD

[CeeJay]

Guy,

Excellent - I was about to post something similar around the use of mediums and the like.

The information and guidance provided in the Bible is very very clear on many of today's contentious issues and however some people may wish to try and spin the words to mean something else , the guidance provided is very clear.

It is often our own desires and wishes that make us ignore what has been provided for us all to assist us in our short passage here on earth.

The other side of the coin, however, is that a great many people still do not view the Bible as the definative guide to life, and respect for other peoples beliefs and faith is paramount in todays fragile society.

At the end of the day each of us has free will and choices to make.

I can only hope and pray I have made the right choices!!     

CJ

(see - http://www.greatcom.org/laws/english/flash/  )

[lawsielass]

I had a similar experience in my late teens - my grandmother died suddenly, and in a dream one night she spoke to me to tell me not to worry and that she was ok..... It shocked me that much it woke me from my sleep.

To this day thinking about how I felt when that happened still makes me emotional....

[Clevercat]

Ont thing I do not understand about Christianity is that you can be a good person all your life, live the way the Bible preaches, yet unless you are a believer you are classed as a sinner and will not go on to have eteranl life.. Am I right in that quote?  Yet a person who has murdered or maimed will be forgiven and allowed forgiveness if he suddenly turns to God.  Does not make any sense to me at all.

[Guy Davies]

Hi Clevercat,

You wrote,

Ont thing I do not understand about Christianity is that you can be a good person all your life, live the way the Bible preaches, yet unless you are a believer you are classed as a sinner and will not go on to have eternal life.. Am I right in that quote? Yet a person who has murdered or maimed will be forgiven and allowed forgiveness if he suddenly turns to God. Does not make any sense to me at all.

May I attempt to answer your questions?

People often assume that the Christian message is all about keeping the rules and getting to heaven. But that just isn't true. The Bible teaches that all people are sinners. That does not mean that we are all vile criminals, but that we all fail to live our lives to the glory of God. That is the Bible's definition of sin: "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). That is true of everybody, me included. God, our Creator is holy and righteous, he must therefore judge and condemn all sinful behavior.

We cannot put ourselves right with God by keeping the rules, going to Church etc. No amount of rule keeping can make up for our basic failure to put God first in all that we do. Christianity is all about what God has done for us, not what we may attempt to do for him. The massage is centered on God's love and grace towards people who do not live for his glory.

God has sent his Son, Jesus Christ into our world to rescue us from sin. Jesus, the eternal Son of God became man to die on the cross for our sins that we may be forgiven and put right with God. This is what "Good Friday" is all about. Jesus was raised from the dead on the first "Easter Sunday" and exalted to heaven as the world's true Lord and King.

God is acting justly when he forgives sinners, even murderers and vile criminals, because Jesus bore the punishment for human sin on the cross. This is the supreme demonstration of God's love for us,

"God demonstrates his own love towards us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8 ).

This is the scandal that lies at the heart of the Christan Gospel - that God sent his Son to die for his enemies. This is what many people fail to understand. The Gospel exposes us for the frail, broken human beings that we are and points us to the death of God's Son as our only hope.

Salvation is through Jesus Christ alone. He said,

"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except though me." (John 14:6.)

No one but Jesus had died for sinners. He alone was raised from the dead to give us the hope of eternal life.

The Christian believer will go to heaven when he or she dies because of what Jesus Christ has done for them. But dying and going to heaven is not the final destiny for believers. The Bible does not teach reincarnation, but resurrection from the dead. Jesus will return to our planet and summon the dead from their graves. Those who believed in Christ will be raised to immortal glory and those who did not believe in him will be raised up for judgment.

Jesus said..., “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25 & 26).

For more on the Christian message, follow these links:

http://www.providence-ebenezer.org.uk/main/articles/whoisjesus.html

http://www.providence-ebenezer.org.uk/main/articles/thinkaboutit.html

Yours,

GD

[thatmanfez]

Ok… I’ll be the first atheist to stick his head above the parapet…

I don’t believe in a god (any god); I don’t believe in ghosts, ghouls or goblins; fairies are a figment of the imagination and sorry kids but the Santa Clause whose lap you sat on is called Barry and normally works in accounts!

IMO people choose to believe in these sorts of thing in order to try and explain what they don’t understand, can’t comprehend or scare them. It is perfectly natural and I’m not saying that it’s a bad thing – it’s just not for me.

We are all anthropomorphic to our pets. Many of us spend hundreds of thousands of pounds each year looking for a dinosaur in a Scottish pond. Some people even think that we’re controlled by a group of stars that directly affect our lives (what sign are you?)…

… So why shouldn’t we see messages from dead people in our cups of tea??? Because (IOM) it isn’t a message from the otherside – it’s a message from our subconscious telling us that we’re scared and feeling alone in this big bad world.

[charlie finbow]

Ill refer you back to what I said "it works for me".   I dont go around trying to force my beliefs on anyone and everyone is entitled to theirs.

[thatmanfez]

I agree with you 100% Charlie – in fact I said almost exactly the same thing in my post; but this is a forum and we’re in this thread to discuss our thoughts/fears/beliefs, so I presented mine for discussion.

[charlie finbow]

Quite right and I thaank you for doing so. take ccare

[Andy]

Thanks to Guy for his above post. He's written things that I was thinking in a far better way than I could have done so!

CC, Steve and Fez know my opinions as a Christian. I respect everyone from where they come from beliefs (or not) wise. It makes for some great discussions too  .

[Guy Davies]

Hi thatmanfez,

I'm not in the business of defending the existence of fairies, Father Christmas or the Loch Ness Monster.  But, it strikes me that even atheism is a form of wish-fulfillment. Could it be that you are an atheist because you fear the God who is beyond your understanding, comprehension and control?

See here for a review of Dawkins' God by Alister McGrath

http://exiledpreacher.blogspot.com/2006/01/dawkins-god-by-alister-mcgrath_06.html

Yours,

GD

[thatmanfez]

Hi GD,
For some atheists I would tend to agree with you statement, but I don’t think it applies in my case. I don’t fear a god because I know that no such thing exists.

Gods in some form have been worshiped since mankind was able to comprehend the concept. The gods worshiped have been relevant to the time.
When mankind was in a stage of evolution where the fear of death through starvation/exposure was foremost in our minds, the gods were those of animals and fire…
Once we’d evolved further, the gods became that of love and war etc…
Two thousand years ago (ish) we needed a god to rule our baser instincts and force us to be nicer to our neighbours, so a few of those appeared.
In our age of scientific understanding the ‘truths’ that these gods offer have largely been disproved (in my mind – you may choose to ignore science if you wish).

I’m an atheist because I feel there is enough evidence to disprove the existence of a god… A few years ago I classed myself an agnostic but my views have now solidified as mankind’s understanding of the universe improves.

I don’t mind that other people choose to still believe in a god. If it helps them lead a better life then it can only be a good thing… However, one advantage of the decline of faith is that people are being forced to think for themselves, question their own morality and not just except what they are told by the mouthpiece of their god – hopefully this increased awareness and the knowledge that mankind is alone on this planet will make us less likely to destroy ourselves…

Fez

[stick insect]

Well I started off as a christian and a few years ago became more interested in the spiritual side and so now class myself as a christian spiritualist. One thing hasn't changed though, I have never felt the need to attend church regularly, it is something private between me and my God. I don't need anyone to act as a go between for me. I'm not knocking anyone who does attend church regularly, just not for me. My faith has given me a great deal of comfort and peace at some very rough times in my life and for that I'm greatful. Being of a scientific background (doing a OU degree in Earth Sciences) doesn't mean I cannot accomodate both views into my life. They sort of merge.

Fez - mate the only God you believe in is Beer!

[CeeJay]

Fez,

I’m an atheist because I feel there is enough evidence to disprove the existence of a god…

Dude - ping me some PM's with this evidence?

I just look at the complexity of DNA, a simple flower, a single celled organism, the beauty of a sunset, let alone the complexities of a human being and that is proof enough of God for me!!

Science has some of the answers.

God has all of them!

My 2p worth!

CJ